From: ipecac_icecap	Date: November 12th, 2007 02:59 am (UTC)		(Link)

I would keep passing until my opponent played P and AL in line with each other so I could play S(P)ECI(AL)IZE. Thanks to Zzyzyva for this smartass response.

	From: pbzeigler	Date: November 12th, 2007 03:15 am (UTC)		(Link)

so, that's the strategic prowess that has taken you so far.... See ya tuesday.

	From: stmonday	Date: November 12th, 2007 03:46 am (UTC)		(Link)

I'd probably play ICE for the leave and the virtual guarantee of an open board, but SEIZE isn't that bad (opens up the board, scores, IC leave is reasonable). ZEE I don't really like--the parallel play your opponent could get will be more than 24, which is a waste of the Z, and then you might have to waste the S the next turn anyway to clean up that rack, and the board could be a real mess. At least with SEIZE you're getting some turnover.

	From: pbzeigler	Date: November 12th, 2007 04:01 am (UTC)		(Link)

I can see turnover as a rationale, but I discount it, as turnover is essentially a race for esses and blanks, and turning over the S for a relatively small point gain over ZEE seems wrong to me. I like ICE... I'm almost guaranteed at least 35 with it, with many many possibilities for more points (I ended up playing SIZED to the triple for 50 something), plus a number of bingo possibilities.

Probably a stylistic thing too... I know I like throwing out very hookable words early, as when placed correctly, they provide more opportunities for you than your opponent. Hopefully leads to a reasonably open board, and if I bingo first, have confidence I can shut it down.

	From: stmonday	Date: November 12th, 2007 04:45 am (UTC)		(Link)

Notice I mentioned turnover last; it isn't really a major concern, just a tiebreak of sorts. The way I see it, with an opening play of ZEE and a leave of CIIS, you're going to be spending the S for less than its value pretty often, or hoarding it on your rack for longer than you'd like. The S is great, yeah, and you'd like to use S+Z for more than 30, but an opening play of ZEE really hinders the S, and you're giving up board control (and the lead) to your opponent too often as well. With SEIZE, you're scoring (not as much as you'd ideally like to, of course), and with the letters you have available to play through/hook on to you should have a reasonable response to whatever your opponent does; it's more flexible.

Like I said, I do like ICE best, for the reasons you mention. The C cleaves the board nicely so it can't be shut down with a parallel play, and you've got all the hook possibilities. When you have a great leave (and SIZE fits the bill), you want the board wide the fuck open, and ICE does that nicely.

	From: etheridge2	Date: November 12th, 2007 07:30 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Your logic is a bit faulty when you say turnover using the S for a relatively small point gain over ZEE seems wrong. You in fact played ICE for 10 as opposed to SEIZE for 30 (That's a 20 point difference). Zee gives you a leave with II and scores 6 less then SEIZE, ICE has a nice leave of SIZE but sacrificing 20 points for a better leave??? That seems foolish, if ZEE gave you the better leave and you can score 24 vs. 30 and have the better leave take it, but in this case I say play the S, take the points, and turnover the additional tiles.

	From: tailskid	Date: November 12th, 2007 05:28 am (UTC)		(Link)
	As I heard in Dayton...

"E's are the grease to the bingo wheels."

I always like to have a leave with an E. I'd play ICE. Debating whether or not to put the I or E on the star. Either way, you threaten SIZE/(ICE)S or S(ICE). I'll be sure to put the wrong one on the star, rest assured.

If you hate SEIZE, you hate ZEE; no way the CIIS leave is six points better than the CI leave (not to mention that, playing by the Murphy's Law of Scrabble, which I do, you're drawing another I if you leave two).

Jason, interested to see how far down the list Exch. EIZ ranks

	From: pbzeigler	Date: November 12th, 2007 03:01 pm (UTC)		(Link)
	Re: As I heard in Dayton...

I played the I on center square... far more hook on the front that back, so I decided to make a front hook pay off less. Quackle strongly agrees in choosing between the two placements of ICE... 4.5 pts in valuation and 1.75% more winning after 1425 iterations at 2 plies.

Quackle's top four after above described sim...
8D SEIZE 55.96 33.1
8H SEIZE 55.09 31.1
8G ZEE 54.78 30.5
8H ICE 54.76 30.5

Exchanging EIZ falls way behind... lower than any other quackle generated choice or either placement od ICE... 50.83 % with a 20.8 valuation.(which I have to admit, is better than I though it would be... it's an interesting option, regardless of sim results.)